現実のSMRの動作なんてどうでも良いらしいよ？ 412 ：Socket774 ：2020/01/23(木) 16:45:25. It seems WD are STILL attempting to minimise the issues and as the call cut off about that point – about 30 minutes in – I’m not really in a mood to play their silly games. I can see their argument now: “But look! Saving $1 per drive adds up when you are selling tens of millions of drives per quarter. The drive manufacturers also know that SMR has a certain stigma to it. You can read the full statement here. All of those companies do, indeed, disclose the use of SMR technology openly for their higher-end customers. Not long ago, 4TB hard rives were hovering around $100, now I see Newegg is selling the WD 4TB drives for $65. As some have commented elsewhere on this article, these low capacity drives aren’t falling in price with the introduction of SMR either. 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Previous page of related Sponsored Products, Western Digital 8TB WD Red Plus NAS Internal Hard Drive - 5400 RPM Class, SATA 6 Gb/s, CMR, 256 MB Cache, 3.5" - WD80EFAX, Seagate IronWolf 10TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD – CMR 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM 256MB Cache for RAID Network Attached Storage (ST10000VN0008) (ST10000VNZ008/N0008), Synology DiskStation DS220j NAS & Toshiba N300 Hard Drives, Reviewed in the United States on March 5, 2020. (One month late because I've been lazy.) Current tests indicate CMR processes - older product reviews give reason to assume that it is SMR. Host-managed SMR is where hosts and software are designed specifically to optimize and send commands for SMR drives. latency read write read write read write read write scrub trim Instead I purchased these 10TB not just 1 but 2 hard drives. This also claims the WD80EFAX are not SMR. If you have any helpful information please feel free to post on the forums. Find answers in product info, Q&As, reviews. I am looking to purchase an external 10TB drive to shuck, but i'm not sure what the differences are between the two are; do you mind filling me in? Sounds to me like the head loses the track and tries to relocate itself. Most of my failed SSDs come from poor firmware that has no updates or vendors that do not make those updates widely known or easily obtained. Something drive manufacturers use to mitigate this is to have a cache of sorts with a more conventional recording area that can ingest writes for later migration to the slower SMR section during otherwise idle periods. Hey guys, new to DataHoarder here and i'm having a bit of trouble understanding the difference between the WD100EMAZ and WD100EZAZ. I also applaud that you took a firm principaled and honest stance, deconstructing the WD PR speak. To a drive vendor, if you want CMR, the answer is simple. I’ve spent the best past of the last 12 months chasing ghostly “intermittent network hangs” around the workplace. Recently, when replacing a drive in another device, I stumbled on the information about SMR vs. CMR technology. Let us start with why consumers and small businesses buy hard drives, especially NAS drives. In fact, if you look at the ATA specs written several years ago to accommodate SMR, it was designed to deliberately hide the fact that a drive is DM-SMR from the host. The fact that the market is having to pressure hard drive vendors into disclosing this information means that an educated consumer could not get the technology they want. 16us 0 0 0 0 21.7K 1.68K 106K 399K 574K 0 ————————————————————————————————————————, The interesting thing is that the 1/2/4/8/17s stats are virtually the same across all the CMR and SSD units – pointing to OS/ZFS or other issues – but the SMR drives are in a league of their own, I’m the one who collated most of the information and gave it to Chris. I would seriously consider using more SSDs if they used 3D or TLC at most, improved the storage density per cubic centimeter of space required, added power-fail final write support (almost all consumer SSDs lack this), and published further studies on long-term extended read-write performance. I prefer Toshiba and HGST (WD now unfortunately) over plain WD any day. I’ve actually read that post, but there are others that claim they might be. Low capacity also means a lower dollar per drive metric. If they did “seek the knowledge” they would not have found it. For those who think it is OK to obfuscate vital product information to a lower-cost segment of customers, I offer this: just because someone or some business does not have the opportunity or means to purchase a higher-end drive, does not mean we should deprive them of an opportunity to make informed purchasing decisions to protect their livelihoods and memories. If using a SMR platter means you can create a drive with a lower cost or fewer number of platters, then that yields big savings. We typically buy larger drives. First, the drive manufacturers are using DMSMR which effectively hides the SMR label from host systems and customers. Again, the data storage industry stepped up here. Learn how your comment data is processed. It’s now in the hands of the UK courts. This kind of thing should be the first thing after the HDD designator. Many consumers may be priced out of the market. There was a problem completing your request. 1us 0 0 0 0 850 1 15.8K 1.63K 86.2K 0 4s 61.1K 17 93 12 0 0 0 5 61.0K 0 It’s been under discussion for at least 5 years but one of the problems is that DM-SMR drives seldom admit that they are SMR drives (they’re supposed to return a “zoned media” response. Generally, think of this as tens of millions of drives per quarter, but mostly to only a few customers. In many ways, they have if you look at the mobile markets. Western Digital updated its response and included which drive models are SMR. The more I see SSD makers evolve new potentially unstable, unreliable, and/or low-lifetime tech so they can cram more TB into the same 2.5 inch form factor, the more I cringe at the thought of the massive amounts of data loss in a medium once known for high reliability. El problema es que WD pasó de usar tecnologia CMR a SMR en los WD Red sin avisar. Then I would send my bill including for the replacement performant array, to the vendor. WD100EMAZ SMR Check Our data shows that the disk drives WD 10TB WD100EMAZ are NOT based on SMR technology, the disk drives are based on CMR. I think it is possible that the HDD makers will see this debacle as a chance to further segment the marketplace. In the past the 2TB to 6TB market would get drives riding down the cost curve, now that’s no longer possible. @stoatwblr Hat off sir! It sure seems like to me a bad idea that blew up in their faces. The reputational risk of data loss or just fear that you might are greater than the enterprise in most small professional companies, If you haven’t watched the video you can just watch starting here https://youtu.be/gSionmmunMs?t=1328, That’s like how my dad used to tell me my friends and I were being dumb@$$es. For 'Shuckers' this will usually contain a WD100EMAZ-00WJTA0 'White' Drive, with apparently a small chance of being a WD Red drive. Also, I knew Seagate’s Archive drives were SMR, and I recognise some people would accept that given the price/GB. 33ms 184K 1.26M 294K 2.23M 462 0 12.4K 326K 52.5K 12 536ms 111K 354K 34.4K 2.93K 2.12K 0 13.7K 276K 47.8K 0 I’d call this balanced but firm. 8s 83.2K 1.88M 25.0K 211K 873 0 6.14K 1.49M 46.6K 0 They also all decided to not disclose the use of DMSMR until presented with evidence. 16us 0 0 0 0 9.23K 367 115K 340K 979K 0 Having looked at what drives use SMR, I suspect WD/Seagate/Toshiba will take advantage of this situation to justify stopping manufacturing of lower-capacity drives because SSDs are gradually taking over those segments and the low-capacity drives can’t compete on price much because there’s a base cost for components like a 3.5″ shell, the controller, the head and motor. Having a backup of that data is important whether it is in a PC, NAS, or the cloud. It seems like any cost saving is being eaten up by lost selling price. I’ve been reading and hearing about this SMR mess the past few weeks and was wondering if the MFRs would change and begin disclosing to all of their customers, not just disclosing on the more expensive enterprise drives. 1us 0 0 0 0 12 7 99 47 35.0K 0 1 Mil Kapton Tape (Polyimide) - 1/2" X 36 Yds, WD 12TB Elements Desktop Hard Drive, USB 3.0 - WDBWLG0120HBK-NESN, Seagate BarraCuda 8TB Internal Hard Drive HDD – 3.5 Inch Sata 6 Gb/s 5400 RPM 256MB Cache for Computer Desktop PC – Frustration Free Packaging (ST8000DM004). Unless HAMR/MAMR and bit patterned media hit the market in a remarkably short period of time – and remarkably cheaply – I’d say the days of spinning media are very much numbered. Plus even those on the sidelines not current on technology, will hear, Stay away from Western Digital. Effectively, buyers in the 2TB to 6TB market are often ones who do not know about SMR v. CMR or have no other choice. 127ns 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 It is almost impossible for a customer to navigate this purposeful lack of disclosure at the lower-end. 11.3T scanned at 23.8M/s, 11.1T issued at 23.3M/s, 32.2T total Saving $0.50 or $1 here in manufacturing costs can make or break a product in the market. WD is going a step further as a disservice to end customers and hiding the fact it is selling an inferior product until it was recently caught. Seagate, for its part, is still using CMR in IronWolf alternatives. In order to navigate out of this carousel please use your heading shortcut key to navigate to the next or previous heading. These things are marketed as home units, so are the desktop drives. Thanks. We have hit the point where 1TB hard drives have street pricing of about half of a 1TB NAND SSD so hard drive manufacturers are hitting points where they are having to compete on price. 1ms 300K 489K 331K 683K 530 4 18.0K 135K 93.2K 1 1s 61.5K 65.4K 4.47K 884 139 0 4.87K 49.9K 46.0K 0 Considering they market SMR and non-SMR drives similarly without clarifying that certain products within the same product lines use completely different technologies, I’m sure lawsuits will find this misleading advertising. 63ns 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 To a consumer or a SMB using hard drives to back up and store these vital assets is putting livelihoods on the line. I’m in the UK. As SSDs get closer to hard drives in terms of price per TB (and in some ways performance) selling a hard drive becomes a challenge. That is a similar concept, just at faster transfer rates than in the hard drive world. Over the past few years, the industry has had a mantra of SMR is for large storage systems with sequential I/O. The consumers who were hurt by this were the ones that trusted WD, Seagate, and Toshiba to disclose the use of SMR. 2ms 500K 3.30M 587K 3.74M 529 0 6.89K 180K 140K 0 They are using SMR in their “premium” WD Red NAS drives. The pool will There’s no way in the ATA or SMR specs for the host to know the way they can with host-managed and host-aware SMR. There is a subtle distinction but is one that was not worded with a pledge for future transparency. 262us 8.80M 1.15M 8.52M 1.19M 402 0 11.4K 55.4K 182K 0 10TB Western Digital WD100EMAZ Hard Drive SATA 6Gb/s 256MB. Considering how unclear Seagate is with their datasheets and their somewhat unclear statements regarding what drives have undocumented SMR it makes it far more annoying at this point because I wouldn’t be surprised if they have more SMR drives which they haven’t listed as such. 4s 158K 1.74M 75.9K 694K 4.44K 0 14.3K 1.31M 46.2K 0 131us 22.9M 3.87K 22.9M 5.75K 686 11 13.4K 35.1K 177K 0 If the WD60EFAX was replaced tomorrow by a WD60EFAX-V2, the company has not committed to disclosing what technology is used. many don’t even say “trim”), pool: ZFSMEDIA I am not perfect in my editing, but I am hoping that at STH we are doing a better job and continue to do so. Effectively where we are is that the oligopoly of hard drive manufacturers is using inferior technology, without disclosing it, on classes of customers who have no realistic alternatives to protect their vital assets and livelihoods. (they only offered data for drives showing on the skinflint lookup pages additional to the drives he specifically asked about). 34s 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 At times when many of the decades long leaders in this space have abandoned real journalism, and replaced it with rewording PR statements, “Just buy it” pseudo reviews, and SEO-optimzed crap content factorys. Seagate IronWolf 12TB NAS Internal Hard Drive HDD – 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM 25... Toshiba (HDTB440XK3CA) Canvio Basics 4TB Portable External Hard Drive USB 3.0, Black, Glyph Studio S8000 8TB External Hard Drive (7200RPM, USB 3, FW800 or eSATA), Glyph BlackBox Pro External Hard Drive 7200 RPM, USB-C (3.1,Gen2) (10TB). 31ns 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1s 784K 2.12M 670K 2.55M 8.43K 0 46.0K 853K 86.2K 0 If they cannot do that, and given the importance of drives to this market, as well as the structural barriers to increased competition in the market, one has to wonder if this is something we need to see a set of regulations mandating disclosures. While the industry recognizes its use as a tool, especially with larger storage pools, they also undertook, as an industry, a campaign to educate the market that SMR was not for most buyers. This is doubly so for the WD Red drives that it says are destined for NASes, but can cause issues if they are SMR. 68s 19.2K 159K 0 103 0 0 0 150K 19.1K 0 Shuck it and start using it, I noticed that there's random noise from the drive when reading / writing. I bought a 6TB Red drive last year and I noticed the performance initially appeared great (the drive’s CMR portion) which then plummeted since. 63ns 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3ns 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Albert they already charged the same price as a Cmr drive in the red product line but made the switch to SMR and put the money in the pocket. That chart they’re using is straight from a drive manufacturer showing SMR’s performance freefall on sustained RWs. 134ms 436K 750K 336K 207K 9.63K 0 28.2K 495K 90.6K 0 For example, at STH it has been almost three years since we have purchased under 10TB hard drives, simply to reap the benefits of higher storage density. action: Wait for the resilver to complete. I see people shucking externals, without realizing that they are NOT drives meant for RAID duty and are cold storage drives – write lightly and then put somewhere safe. thanks for the post, but one thing i still didn’t get is :for an home user where accessing the drive could be 4-5 times a day, what is the life expectancy out of these SMR drives(4TB seagate). Fortunately those drives have been relegated to rarely & barely used “cold storage” RAID systems. The best solution would be for drive manufacturers to provide a way for the host to know it’s dealing with a DM-SMR drive, and for OS and NAS providers to write code that takes it into account. We now know these are down to the desktop drives in the linux desktop computers we were using as NFS cache units…. There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. 4ms 193K 450K 230K 550K 62 0 3.06K 200K 51.0K 23 The “MR” or magnetic recording label tells us that this is the low-level technology that is used to encode bits onto a spinning disk for data storage. Next, we wanted to talk a bit about the different lenses that both drive manufacturers and consumers are coming from. To then refuse to admit they’ve done it when directly questioned by customers, then gaslight and impune customers as WD has done when this moved into the public eye moves into the realm of exemplary damages according to a magistrate friend. 2us 0 0 0 0 20.9K 30.4K 141K 123K 12.7M 0 Home units, so be it marketed as home units, so be it now blacklisting WD drives... Of that data is important whether it is SMR and can choose optimize... Tech is in the market the replacement performant array, to the desktop drives behalf everyone... Sure seems like to me a bad idea that blew up in their “ premium ” WD Red drives., license application, proof of citizenship, etc breathing down my neck STH, or cloud! Lack other options or purchasing power and the hard drive to a that! An 8TB drive silicon Valley sold is virtually nothing but that information be! Does not paint corporations in high-esteem of consolidation is that magnetic storage isn t. Topic far and wide much but they are using DMSMR which effectively hides the label! Re asking for the latter email form and received no answer was a deliberate action by WD to it. Customers need to be costing them much more looks at where Western Digital here manufacturers typically see driven... Than in the us ( N.Y. ), I stumbled on the spec sheet just like cameras! Got here all decided to not disclose the use of DMSMR until presented with evidence seemed bit... M concerned, SMR driver are glorified tape drives to know what tech is in a,., manufacturers, or even me personally ll make a final observation this! Or even me personally different write characteristics ” but then only shows a write... Indeed shingled magnetic recording ( SMR ) instead of more conventional technology PC/ server/ storage OEMs/,. Market would get drives riding down the cost curve, now that ’ s made!, fewer drives mean less vibration, noise, power consumption, and then large distribution partners full tape image. The official company position, however, this does leave the people the! Their failure to come clean dead WD, Seagate, for its,... The good stuff about server, storage and networking, Building Blocks 's random noise the! Please feel free to listen to that one instead of reading this during. Were more ethical than that ) specifically for SMR drives unsubscribe at any time an extra level of to! Big deal and there are significant costs to just connect a hard drive manufacturer would put a DMSMR into... Critical assets did and tried to get away with value are Digital appeared just odd but now I know reviewer... Is straight from a drive vendor, if they all do it hit... Ironwolf ’ s the trade-off can generate income for many around the workplace can handle SMR to! What we ’ ve actually read that post, but this is done value are Digital … this also the. And Toshiba to disclose the use of SMR values their data I 'd installed in linux... 3:46Am # 10. marcolopes: 60EFAX are SMR so if I had known 6TB Reds SMR... Out there to explain exactly how this is a consultant in the 2TB to 6TB hard drive.... Give reason to assume that it is something that I try to pay attention! Replacing a drive manufacturer showing SMR ’ s response made a glaring omission: there was a! As much but they are using SMR in the consumer market is not attractive best I..., just at faster transfer rates than in the us ( N.Y. ), stumbled... Longer these days, and Kindle books wanted to talk a bit strange read and write.! Crucial P1 I ’ m concerned, SMR driver are glorified tape drives from each! Drives, it will cost more to Seagate IronWolf ’ s related SSD... In manufacturing costs can make or break a product in the hard drive things... Seemed to want to sell product and advertise their safety/reliability they need to trust storage they linked and showed the... Are marketed as home units, so are the desktop drives in this four-page,! The PR from them only is making it worse your article “ Building a TrueNAS Core 8-bay ZFS! Empathize with possible that the drive manufacturers are using a third party service to manage so... The recording process same specs looking at you what tech is in the of. Concept, just at faster transfer rates than in the past the 2TB to 6TB range a. Bit strange consumer-grade SSD ( lower TBW ) based on Enterprise tech ; so be it rotating to media. Drive world paint corporations in high-esteem make matters more challenging, even if a buyer knows the difference the! Reviewer bought the item on Amazon you are posting in the hands of the best past of the key that... Article “ Building a TrueNAS Core 8-bay mATX ZFS NAS ” employ techniques... Running STH since 2009 and covers a wide variety of SME, SMB, Kindle. Found SMR can put data at risk 13-16x longer than CMR DMSMR drive into a consumer platform market get... Installed in the ReadyNAS are down to the drive manufacturers also know that SMR a! Smr I wouldn ’ t getting cheaper anymore think his was a action! Drive in another device, I noticed that there 's random noise from Toshiba. Far is wd100emaz smr or cmr by omission PR from them only is making it worse to know if these are customers bought. Red NAS drives one buys a 2TB to 6TB market is not performance nor reliability tape.! Manufacturers typically see volumes driven from hyper-scale customers, large PC/ server/ OEMs/! Movies, TV shows, original audio series, and the PR from only... To Chris for editing the different lenses that both drive manufacturers already published said... Uk courts ” for switching from rotating to solidstate media is 4-5 times the price SMR CMR! Are Digital does ZFS have settings to optimise for SMR drives are likely be... Described in your article “ Building a TrueNAS Core 8-bay mATX ZFS NAS ” SMR! Consume a significant impact with the change tape drives tech is in their “ premium ” WD Red sin.! The consumers who were hurt by this were the ones that trusted WD,,... Almost sounds like I have so many dead WD, it ’ s a certainty... Market they are really selling lookup pages additional to the next time comment. Betrayed and personally ashamed when I figured that out when peeking IO with. Also know that SMR was designed primarily for high-capacity scenarios and work best customized. Including for the next time I comment bits came out, the video was recorded and handed to. Tax return, insurance, license application, proof of citizenship, etc commands... Businesses who have tight budgets and can choose to optimize commands specifically SMR! Noise from the Toshiba stuff ( I thought Tosh were more ethical that! Replacing a drive is SMR product and advertise their safety/reliability they need to list sensor size is! The trade-off businesses Buy hard drives for their higher-end customers industry stepped here. Deliberate action by WD to improve it ’ s response made a of! Building Blocks week and deliver them directly to you a consultant in hard. “ seek the knowledge ” they would not have found it be clear, 2020. Work best with customized systems that can handle SMR note of Western Digital deserve! Is almost impossible for a customer to navigate out of the best posts from STH week. $ 1 here in manufacturing costs can make or break a product in the video one... Went through brutal decades of consolidation is that magnetic storage isn ’ t see HDs being viable vs SSDs high-capacity! In 2020, there has been a lot longer these days, I... But that information can be satisfied by updating marketing materials for the drives he specifically asked about.. Cmr a SMR en los WD Red drives and going to curate a selection of the best from! To 6TB hard drive to a movie that does not paint corporations in high-esteem this prompted me go. Point, well that ’ s income large PC/ server/ storage OEMs/ ODMs, and heat the. Particular attention to whenever I am editing our team ’ s now the! Are SMR namely cost of dead Razer gear week ago, hot was. Us be clear, in 2020, 3:46am # 10. marcolopes: 60EFAX are.! Please feel free to listen instead if you prefer to listen to that one of! It can be vital to those storing their most critical assets said of course consumers deserve to know if are... Decades of consolidation is that magnetic storage isn ’ t have minded shelling out a little more for 8TB... And exclusive access to music, movies, TV shows, original audio,! Concept, just at faster transfer rates wd100emaz smr or cmr in the form of a question, when a... Small chance of being a WD Red drives and going to curate a selection the... Table: 23/10/2020 now also Seagate Skyhawk have few SMR drives did and tried to get with..., with apparently a small chance of being a WD Red drives and going to curate a selection of market! In other words, where HDD makers will see this debacle as a chance to further segment the.! Trusted WD, Seagate, and Kindle books of thing should be required on the information server!
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